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tv   This Week With George Stephanopoulos  ABC  March 27, 2022 8:00am-9:00am PDT

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>> announcer: "this week" with george stephanopoulos starts right now. show of force. >> ukraine will never be a victory for russia. >> president biden wraps up his trip to europe with a blunt warning to vladimir putin. >> don't even think about moving on one single inch of nato territory. >> just hours after russian missiles strike ukraine. terry moran joins us live from lviv this morning. plus, ukraine's deputy prime minister, olga stefanishyna and former director of the cia david petraeus. supreme scrutiny. >> many of judge jackson's responses have been evasive and
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unclear. >> judge ketanji brown jackson moves one step closer to confirmation. >> i hope you see how much i love our country and the rights that make us great. >> senator amy klobuchar, a key member of the judiciary committee, joins us live. and, shocking texts. >> she's trying to do exactly what vladimir putin failed to do. >> newly revealed messages show the wife of supreme court justice clarence thomas urged the white house chief of staff to overturn the 2020 election. our powerhouse round table tackles the fallout. >> announcer: from abc news, it's "this week." here now co-anchor jonathan karl. good morning. welcome to "this week." it was joe biden's most consequential trip as president yet, back-to-back meetings meets
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brussels with the european union, the g7 and nato, all to unite our allies. the president travelled to poland where he met with some of the 100,000 american troops now stationed in europe. that's the largest u.s. military presence in europe in 20 years. in a stark reminder of the peril of this moment, while president biden was still in poland, russian missiles struck western ukraine bringing destruction and massive clouds of black smoke less than 50 miles from nato's border. hours later biden delivered an address that invoked the weight of history. putting fight against putin's aggression in broader terms. declaring the battle between stmocracy and autocracy as the biden also issued a blunt warning to vladimir putin. any attack of nato territory would be met with the full force of the alliance's collective power. he denounced russia's leader
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with what seemed to be from power. >> for god's sake, this man cannot remain in power. >> the white house quickly clarified issuing a statement that despite what he said, president biden is not actually calling for regime change in moscow. our senior national correspondent terry moran was with the president for part of his trip. he starts us off from lviv. good morning, terry. >> reporter: good morning, jon. this city has taken in hundreds of thousands of people who fled their homes elsewhere in ukraine and you can see it and feel it here. the streets are full of people, traffic at a standstill in many places. those missile attacks yesterday, a mile north of us, the other a mile south of us, they're the fiercest attacks yet. the mayor of lviv calling them greetings from the russian aggressor to president biden. he was across the border in
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poland. at warsaw castle in poland, president biden declared that today's war in ukraine is -- >> a battle between democracy and autocracy, between liberty and oppression, between a world-based order and one governed by brute force. >> reporter: the president summoning free nations to a new cause, a new and dangerous 21st century struggle. >> history shows this is the task of our time, the task of this generation. >> reporter: after more than a month, the russian invasion of ukraine is stalling on many fronts and in some places it's in reverse. so now in what may be a major change in strategy, russia says its main goal is to take control of the donbas region in eastern ukraine. that's a far cry from vladimir putin's vow to
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d de-nasify all of ukraine. sounded a lot like regime change. putin's forces have proved badly led, poorly trained and inadequately supplied. ukraine forces have gone on the counterattack. russian troops have been pushed back more than 30 miles from kyiv and are digging in. now russia has turned to long-range, merciless bombardments of urban centers. kyiv is being hit almost daily by artillery and missile strikes, residential areas mainly taking the brunt of the attacks. the deadliest so far coming this week. video verified by abc shows shos moment a missile hit the shopping mall. russia claims the site was being used by ukrainian forces to launch missiles. more and more of the capital looks like this. russia's main effort is in the east and south in donbas, kharkiv and above all in mariupol. as the fighting rages there, russia is inching closer to
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capturing the key port city. several missile strikes where so many refugees have fled. in brussels this week a show of unity and determination by the western allies and a sense that suddenly everything has changed in europe. >> it's a pivotal moment for history. >> reporter: i asked the nato secretary general stoltenberg about the growing concern that russia would use chemical weapon. >> any use of chemical weapons would be a violation of international law and will change the nature of the conflict. >> reporter: ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy is urging nato to do m asking last night what is nato doing? is it being run by russia? what are they waiting for? it's been 31 days. we are asking for 1% of what nato has, nothing more. near the polish border, president biden mingled with ukrainian refugees. he listened to their stories. he promised over $1 billion to humanitarian aid and to open the
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doors of america to 100,000 ukrainians. that resettlement process can take years. the war might still be grinding on. that was one of the president's main messages here. this crisis which has changed so much so fast is far from over. that fight will be fought here by all ukrainians because as the missile attacks near lviv show, there's no real safe haven in ukraine. while ukrainian forces have checked russian advances mostly around the country, they are taking heavy losses too. that's why president zelenskyy keeps asking for more. if this war grinds on, those forces will need more weapons, more help, a lot more. jon? >> terry moran in lviv this morning. thank you, terry. joining us now is ukraine's deputy prime minister, a top adviser to president zelenskyy, olga stefanishyna. madam deputy prime minister, thank you for joining us.
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you heard president biden's words, his declaration, we stand with you period. speaking to you, speaking to all of ukraine. do those words match the actions that we're seeing from the united states and from nato? >> well, first of all, this address was to the ukrainian people, not only to the ukrainian leadership. it was important because in this time of the severe war and nearly all possible war crimes have been committed against the country, but also the eastern ukrainian people, it was important to have the sense of an international leadership and an understanding of the tragedy happening there. for us, we've also heard a very important message related to the war crimes committed in our territory and the understanding and readiness to form the anti-war coalition led by the strongest democracies in the war to stop the war and to stop the
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terror regime by russia. >> there's clear frustration we're hearing from president zelenskyy. just yesterday he was saying -- he was expressing frustration by nato saying is it being run by russia? why can't he get all he needs? what more do you need? as you stand in kyiv, what more do you need to defend yourselves against this aggression? >> first of all, all these messages, they should not emotion. it's different what do we feel and understand right now happening in ukraine where the dozens and hundreds of civilian people and children are dying. the leaders outside ukraine and europe and the transatlantic, it takes more time to build a consensus on things.
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we feel concentrating and understanding what we need. the no-fly zone we're requesting. sooner or later this decision will be taken. it will be taken by massive costs of civilian deaths in ukraine. that's why it's not emotion. it's the understanding of need and a willingness to wait for a proper political moment. it's important that the west and the leaders of european nations, most of them are there already, understanding that ukraine shall get any possible assistance, including military, to be capable to defend itself and to hold the europeans safe while the political consensus of how to stop the aggression is there. everybody should be concentrated on one goal, to make sure ukraine is capable, financially stable to resist and defend until the political solution, how to restore the integrity of ukraine and peace around europe is there.
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>> what can you tell us is the latest out of mariupol? we hear the horrific reports of no electricity, no food or water, russians taking over neighborhoods, taking people out of at's the >> i wou couple very important elements of pretext. it's more than 80 towns and villages around ukraine which are more or less in the same position. while mariupol is for russia -- holds control over the donbas region. for russia war is ordinary business. war russia has been doing all around the world for decades. they're extremely skilled in manipulating. that's why they do it. with the red cross organization and what i can confirm as an
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insider of the negotiations is they didn't really care about a single life of a person who died or suffers there. to them, it has nothing to do with humanity. in mariupol the situation is extremely complicated. although we managed to take out of there more than 150,000 people, too many of them still remain there. they don't have access to waterw it simply does not exist anymore. while people there -- some of them have been forcefully displaced to the russian federation. this is worse than being in a humanitarian crisis in a city. >> given all of that, is there any sign of any glimmer of hope on negotiations with the russians? you heard people speculate that perhaps nato -- perhaps ukraine needs to make concessions, rule
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out joining nato or ceding crimea or the territories in the east. is any of that on the table, the idea of rewarding the russians for all this by ceding territory in the east? >> russians have put everything on the table while there are clear red lines for ukraine. these are red lines for the ukrainian people and the whole world. now we have the international court of justice telling the russians to stop the military operations and refrain from any military actions. this is one point where no discussions are possible. there's no discussions which are possible as regards to the integrity of the ukrainian territory. ukraine will never step up for any element which would legitimize all the war crimes which has been committed on the ukrainian territory. >> thank you, madam deputy prime
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minister. thank you for your resolve and bravery. appreciate your time. let's bring in former cia director and retired four-star general david petraeus. general petraeus, let's pick up what we heard there. the idea that giving any concessions as part of negotiations with russia would be rewarding basically their terrorism that they rained down upon the ukrainian people. >> yeah, i mean, it indicates that the venn diagrams, what's acceptable to president putin and also to president zelenskyy, there's very little overlap, if any. basically you have a president in moscow watching his economy, his financial system, his inner circle and business community be seriously damaged, some cases irreparably another president in kyiv is
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watching his country slowly be damaged, terrible loss of life. although the battlefield situation is a bit of a bloody stalemate, the ukrainians having halted the russians around kyiv, kharkiv and others and pushing them back a bit in kyiv, then you have the situation in mariupol which has become a ukrainian alamo at this point in time. it's fighting to the last defender and pinning down multiple russian battalions very heroically. ultimately it looks like it's going to collapse, it's going to be taken. when it does, that's a moment of some peril for ukraine. now that port can be used by the russians. they were using a port to the west of that where a ship was hit and destroyed, russian ship. they'll now have quite a good port on the sea out to the black sea and then it will free up a number of battalions that were
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the ones closing the circle, closing the noose on mariupol who can push further north and perhaps enable russia to achieve what it has said, has redefined its objectives, to taking control of all of the donbas, provinces, if you will, solidifying its grip on the land corridor from the donbas all the way to crimea. this is going to be a very tenuous period the next few days as we see what happens in mariupol, what the russians are able to do as a result of it and then how the ukrainians respond. it's a very long distance from anywhere where they might have forces they can possibly spare. of course, in the meantime understandably president zelenskyy, who despite hearing this extraordinary commitment from president biden and from all of the leaders of nato at
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the summit this week, nonetheless wants more. i fully understand that. he's like a battlefield commander. no commander has ever had enough forces, drones, air force, whatever it may be. that's the position which he finds himself. we should understand that. what we need to do is provide everything we can that can be provided without needlessly provoking a direct confrontation with russia. i very much understand president biden's concerns about that. >> let me ask you about that. we saw president biden's speech in warsaw outline this basically as the struggle, the fight of our time. there was that line at the end of his speech where he said flatly that putin must go, that this man must not remain in power. obviously that's not -- i mean, that's not the policy. how does something like that, a very -- it made headlines all around the world. how does that complicate the
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efforts to resolve this situation? >> well, i mean, it reminds us that message discipline has its urging. that was clearly an unscripted moment in the emotion of that very emotional moment. it will cause some challenges down the road. it will disappear. the headlines will move on to something else within a few days. in the mind of putin, someone who has watched and rewatched old videos of gaddafi being taken and killed, this kind of thing, it will play on his mind. it could complicate matters going down the road. i think president biden -- knowing him he would be the first to say oops, okay, guys, let's get on with it. this should not overshadow what was an extraordinarily important and successful trip to europe, one that the u.s. led as it has done so impressively throughout
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this entire effort and pulled together, guided and then ultimately with this speech -- it was a very strong statement obviously. >> i want to ask you a little flashback here to a statement made by the president of poland visiting georgia after the russians invaded georgia in 2008. a statement that echos today. at the said that -- again, this is 2008. he said today georgia, tomorrow ukraine and then the baltic states and then perhaps the time comes for my country, poland. obviously ukraine did come. is there a concern here that whatever ends up resolving this, if there is a resolution here with the russians backing down, rewarding them in any way for this is a green light for putin's ultimate plan to rebuild the russian empire?
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>> jon, i tend to think this has complicated any ambitions he might have had considerably. this will set back his military for years. it's shown the world it's not the modernized force everybody thought it might be. this has been a huge challenge for the russians. the fact they lost seven generals because they can't command and control sufficiently. they have to get out of their armored vehicles to find out why they're stopped again, this kind of thing. i tend to think his ambitions are going to blawh t iukin ninta week >>congn moves one ep closer to joining the supreme court, clarence thomas is facing new scrutiny about his wife's involvement in attempts to overturn the 2020 election.
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digital tools so impressive, you just can't stop. what would you like the power to do? justice thomas has to excuse himself from anything related to the trump administration, anything related to the january 6th commission, or anything in our effort to hold individuals accountable for this attack on our democracy. >> justice thomas could make decisions like he made them every other time. it's his decision based upon law. if he sees it as not up holding the constitution, he'll do that. >> some reaction to the extraordinary text messages revealing that ginni thomas, married to supreme court justice
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clarence thomas, urged donald trump's white house chief of staff to overturn the 2020 elections in the days and weeks after the vote just as trump and his allies were promising to take the case to the supreme court. here to discuss that and more is senator amy klobuchar, a member of the judiciary committee. before we get to matters related to the supreme court, i want to ask you about president biden's speech and that line we all heard him say very bluntly, this man, vladimir putin, cannot remain in power. wasn't he saying exactly what he believed? >> first, the white house has clarified that he was talking about the region and that he was talking about that vladimir putin has got to stay out of nato country, something he specifically said in his speech. i think general petraeus said -- was meaningful here. we know the policy of our country. we know what it is. vladimir putin knows what it is. our nato allies and americans know what it is.
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we're part of nato. we're doing everything we can to protect those nato countries, doubling our troops in poland that i just visited a few weeks ago. incredible command there and leadership. giving them significant military assistance that is so necessary and we have done a lot and we should do more. beyond that, our policy is clear. nato is a defensive alliance. the president said it himself and we will do all we can to help ukraine and you can see the strength of that help coming through. the fact they literally pushed russian troops back from kyiv. >> that message came through. as you know, during the campaign, you ran against joe biden. you know what he said. he sd the words of a president matter. that was the headline around the world. that was the message heard in moscow. that's what the russians are responding to. whatever walk back there is his words -- cannot remain in power. >> having stood there myself on that border and embraced the kids coming in, hearing about
Check
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the horror they're leaving, they're leaving everything behind, their little stuffed animals in their backpacks, moms with suitcases leaving here husbands behind to fight, yes, the moment is clear. vladimir putin is a monster. the position of the united states government is not to send troops in there. it's to give all the aid to ukraine which includes switch blade drones, incredible drones that have done damage to the russian army, russian planes. you have stingers, thousands of javelins and we're doing more and more and we must. i have advocated for doing more. that's what this is. it's the humanitarian aid, over $1 billion pledged, taking in over 100,000 refugees, that's what we're doing. >> it's not regime change in moscow? >> that's been made clear. >> let's turn to matters related to the high court. you saw the text messages from ginni thomas, clarence thomas'
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wife. i want to read just two of them. on november 6th she said do not concede. it takes time for the army that is gathering. on november 19th sounds like sidney, sidney powell, are getting inundated with evidence of fraud. make a plan. release the kraken. save us from the left taking american down. my goodness. >> the facts are clear here. this is unbelievable. you have the wife of a sitting supreme court justice advocating for an insurrection, advocating for overturning a legal election to the sitting president's chief of staff and she also knows this election, these cases, are going to come before her husband. this is a textbook case for removing him, recusing him from these decisions. i don't think -- all i hear is silence from the supreme court right now. that better change in the coming week because every other federal
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judge in the country except supreme court justices would have a guidance from ethics rules saying you have to recuse yourself. thomas recused himself in 1995 from a case involving a school because his son was going to that school. justice breyer recused himself when his wife was on the board of an entity that came before the supreme court. >> if he doesn't recuse himself? >> the integrity of the court is on the line here. they better speak out on this. you cannot have a justice hearing cases related to this election and, in fact, the ethics rules that apply to other federal judges say if it involves a family member, an appearance of impartiality, they have to recuse themselves. this supreme court needs ethics rules. chris murphy is leading a law that i'm supportive of that says
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get your about together. get justice rules in place. i hope justice roberts will get these rules in place. they have to do it. they should do it themselves. >> ketanji brown jackson, some fascinating questions from your republican colleagues. joe manchin is on board. is she going to get republican support? what are you hearing? >> i think she is. she has in every other nomination she's had for various levels of the court. i would make very clear here, she's not going to get confirmed in two years, two months. she's going to get confirmed in two weeks. so much of that has to do with her vast experience, more judicial experience than four of the justices that currently sit on that court. the pillar of strength, how she handled those attacks, just sat there and answered their questions. she's the first black woman to serve on the supreme court. when she walks into that court with her head held high, every little boy and girl in america is going to know that everything is possible. >> it is clear the overwhelming
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majority of republicans will vote against her. lindsey graham in an interview with the "washington post" said that when democrats, all democrats, voted against amy coney barrett they set the precedent. this is what he said. is that the new norm? what do you do when one party has the senate and another has the white house? how do you ever get anybody confirmed? what has happened to this process? scalia was overwhelmingly confirmed. ruth bader ginsburg, sandra day o'connor. now, i mean, we'll have a court where nobody had the majority of both parties. >> i'm not going to relitigate the past. remember the unique circumstances of amy coney barrett where mitch mcconnell shoved through that nomination right before an election. we have someone highly qualified that got votes of republicans in the past and those republicans, two of them, have issued positive statements in the months leading up to this hearing. i believe she'll get republican
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support. i can't tell you who or how much. it will be very important to this process. >> senator amy klobuchar, thank you for being here onset. >> thank you, jonathan. the round table is next and fivethiryeight's nate silver on the political fallout from judge jackson's confirmation hearings. stay with us. htest minds in med, this is the only healthcare system in the country with five nationally ranked hospitals, including two world-renowned academic medical centers, in boston, where biotech innovates daily and our doctors teach at harvard medical school, and where the physicians doing the world-changing research are the ones providing care. there's only one mass general brigham. wayfair's got just what you need to be outdoorsy. your way! shop the biggest selection of outdoor furniture and furnish your habitat from your habitat. get a new grill
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explain what you meant. >> can you provide a definition for the word woman? >> some harsh and highly unusual questions from republicans to judge ketanji brown jackson during her confirmation hearings this week. as the parties gear up for midterm elections, could the sharp questioning backfire on the gop? we'll discuss the hearings with our round table after this analysis from fivethiryeight's nate silver. >> let's start with the simple fact. ketanji brown jackson is a popular nominee. according to gallup polling 58% of americans want the senate to vote to confirm her. that's the second highest figure for any nominee since 1987. it's also true that 30% of americans oppose her confirmation in the same poll. her rating of plus 28 is higher than recent nominees like judge kavanaugh who was a plus 4 or amy coney barrett at a plus 5. in an election where republicans have a lot going for them, they're taking a real risk. supreme court confirmations is
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one of the most important things the senate does. susan collins held on to her seat after opposing barrett who was unpopular in maine. claire mccaskill and joe donnelly may have sealed their fates after voting against kavanaugh. part of the risk for republicans could be uniting the democratic base which has been split over issues like covid. 88% of democrats favor ketanji brown jackson's confirmation. 7% oppose. it could also motivate black democrats after the party failed to deliver on issues like voting rights. still, with president biden's approval numbers among black voters slipping into the mid 60s, there's room for improvement. overall i buy this one. partisan opposition may be the norm for supreme court nominations, but that doesn't mean it's politically wise. >> thanks to nate for that. the round table is here. we'll be right back. ♪ ♪
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everywhere. >> president biden speaking in poland yesterday. here to discuss that and more is ramesh ponnuru, the editor of the national review, former dnc chair donna brazile, jeffrey goldberg and "wall street journal" reporter vivian salama. donna, that speech in warsaw, the white house really raised expectations for it. it was a major address. obviously he said this is the fight of all time. did he meet the moment? >> i thought so. some people describe it as churchillian. for others it was inspiring. it was powerful. he spoke to me. i don't know if he spoke to others when he said be not afraid, quoting pope john paul. he said every generation must choose its battle. democracy is the battle of our lifetime. it was powerful. i know everyone is focusing on those nine words, but i think we should focus on the core message.
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the united states will stand with our nato allies. the united states has committed more resources to help the ukrainians and that the country understood its role in this battle. >> we'll get to those nine words in a minute. ramesh, he did outline this as basically the ultimate struggle of our time. seemed to be saying this is about much more than ukraine and this is not going to be over any time soon. >> the very broad outlines of this policy i think commands a consensus in the country, that is we are going to support ukraine and avoid a direct military conflict. the debate in the u.s. has been over the parameters of that. are we supportive enough? do we need to do more or less? then the execution of it. that's where we get back to those nine words. that does -- that did create some doubt about whether president biden is in control of his own administration or in
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control of himself at all times. it's not good if you have a churchillian speech followed by cleanup from your administration. >> the cleanup -- the nine words of course that he must go, he must not remain in power, meaning vladimir putin. for god's sake he must not remain in power. then the white house comes out and says he wasn't calling for him to be removed from power. >> they probably should not have walked it back and left it out there. the argument we're hearing he didn't mean what the plain meaning of the words are. this speech was a very powerful, it's true. it's also true when you're calling for regime change in a nuclear state, that's a policy you might want to think through before you do it.
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joe biden, a veteran of the obama administration, understood how presidents can get tripped up by rhetorical flourishes. president obama and the red line for instance. >> it wasn't a response to a question. t wasn't a planned statement. >> right. all sympathy for joe biden, these trips are difficult. it was an emotional moment. of course, how do you not want a monster, a person he described as a monster, to be removed? nevertheless, this is a nuclear power and a person who has nuclear weapons is a more dangerous foe than one who doesn't feel like he's in a corner. it's a tough moment. >> to quote another thing from biden, a president's words matter. vivian, any doubt he wasn't saying what he believes? >> president biden is going to say what president biden wants to say. it is important. we've seen this in the last couple weeks. he called president putin a war criminal before they officially came out and declared from the state department that they believed the russian forces were committing war crimes.
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he also called him a butcher. you don't see that reflected in official u.s. policy, but obviously the president is going to go out there and project what he believes the white house has said all along, even with his war criminal comments. they said he was speaking from the heart. this is something president biden has a history of doing. whether u.s. policy will reflect that remains to be seen. something like calling for regime change or suggesting the notion of regime change has a lot of land mines. the u.s. has a dark cloud, a long history of seeming like they're meddling in other countries' affairs. suggesting regime change suggests the u.s. would get involved in that. u.s. policy very careful to not suggest that. that creates a lot of problems down the line for the u.s. >> think about his audience, his audience was the entire world, including the russian people.
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he spoke directly to them. >> that's right. you are not our enemy. >> we know that mr. putin does not like opposition. he eliminated most of the opposition in russia. we know what happens when the russian people stand up against their government and their leader. i believe this was a really important moment for america to not just lead on the issue of democracy, but also lead the international community. i think, i believe, overall the trip was a successful trip. he did what we wanted him, i think, americans, what we wanted him to do, to show leadership on the international stage. >> it's hard to take issue with his characterization of putin as a butcher, as a war criminal, or even his desire he ultimately be removed from power. how do you have get from those words to a diplomatic solution? where does this go? >> you know, the other problem
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is if you do have announced a policy of regime change or wish a regime change, that raises the question so what's the plan? how are you going to do this? it's another reason you don't want to get into this territory. right now i think we are looking at continued bloody stalemates and it is -- you know, there are no signs that is going to change and we're going to be, i think, probably having the same basic conversation next week and the week after. >> wasn't it just haunting to see those missile strikes in lviv? you know, just 40, 50 miles from the nato border at a time when biden had just been there. >> you know, just to add something to what donna said, the -- you know, this was an extraordinarily emotional trip for joe biden. he's at the end of the trip. >> he saw refugees. >> he's seen horrors.
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it was understandable he wants the monster to go. just to add to the framing that you provided that said overall it was a successful trip, if you look back at it and step back, america in some ways is back. i hate to use the slogan, but european country after european country wants the u.s. behind it. the polish people are very happy to see an american president. things have become clarified. this trip was very, very useful in terms of clarifying who the free people of europe want on their side and who they're scared of. that was all very useful. putin is playing right into it by firing missiles at lviv, by behaving like a monster. in the broader context it was obviously a successful trip and something he should do again to remind the world that america is fundamentally different than russia and china.
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>> jon, to answer that question as well, president putin knows that he can kind of go up to the line without crossing it and that crossing is hitting a nato country. >> there is a margin of error. >> completely so. we see he has no real boundaries as far as invading a sovereign country and the damage he's inflicted upon ukraine. this is something that president volodymyr zelenskyy has been insisting on all along. we're not part of nato. ultimately, regardless of anything, even if he gets within five miles of the polish border, we're on our own. we are on our own. we are not part of nato and nato will not act unless it's hit. >> we might see in the fullness of time that the most important thing that joe biden said in that speech was not one inch. that was a very direct and forceful reminder to russia that you cross into nato territory, all bets are off. >> that was a red line even if
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he didn't say it. >> it's a red line that exists. >> i want to turn to ginni thomas, clarence thomas' wife and her text messages. i want to highlight one other text message. this is one she sent to mark meadows on january 10th. we're living through what feels like the end of america. most of us are disgusted with the vp, mike pence, and are in listening mode to see where to fight with our teams. those who attacked the capital are not representative of our great team of patriots for djt. rmesh, explain. just explain. what is this? >> well, this is a conservative activist who went pretetetet fa down the rabbit hole of conspiratorial thinking and apocalyptic thinking and was encouraged by then president trump to believe a lot of nonsense about what had happened in the 2020 election. >> so trump was encouraging her
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or she was encouraging him? where was the nonsense running to and from? >> it may have been an eco chamber where people spin themselves up and spin ot's veryismaying.t was the mop to the pressure and fulfilled his constitutional duty and said she was disgusted by it. i think it speaks very poorly about her judgment. >> senator klobuchar made a powerful case for thomas to recuse himself. do you agree with that? >> i think whether justice thomas recuses himself is going to depend on the facts of that case. if it's something that involves specific records involving his wife, he has to recuse himself. there's now this appearance of impropriety question which is going to affect how he evaluates those future cases.
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frankly, i would not be surprised if the supreme court were that much more likely to want to stay out of future cases involving the january 6th committee. >> when justice roberts concluded that a press report of the exchange between mr. gorsuch and justice sotomayor was in error, the supreme court put out a statement. i would hope they would put out a statement. >> a statement about what? >> that justice thomas would recuse himself on any cases involving the january 6th -- >> that's not for the court to say. it's for thomas to say. >> yes, it is. i still believes there has to be a statement. i think she was unhinged. i know she's a conservative activist. i'm an activist. that went over the top. seriously, you have to look --
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>> she would have a great career on twitter. the point going to your question, justice roberts could walk down the hall and just pop in to justice thomas' chambers and say we have a mess and i would like to say something about this. the supreme court is self-regulating. the supreme court sets its own -- >> only court in the land not guided by ethics. >> that's why it's supreme. they're in charge of their own ethics and their own appearance. they've got a problem. >> to the question of impropriety, there's this lingering question over justice thomas because of the fact that he was the only justice to block the january 6th committee from getting into former president trump's papers. you have this lingering over him. for future cases there's going to be intense scrutiny about any decisions he's making that have any link to what happened. >> donna, i have to get your thoughts on the confirmation hearings of ketanji brown jackson. >> we were promised by mitch
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mcconnell it would be a fair process. within 30 minutes or 60 minutes the first question on a scale of one to ten tell me about your religion. there's no religious text. then the other one, define a woman. the best one was -- you know, for me to watch these proceedings, to quote dr. king and then to turn dr. king into somebody who's against the people who are still fighting for their dreams, it was pathetic. >> this focus on child pornography and pedophiles. >> qanon. >> it was a message to qanon, wasn't it? these were not major cases. these were sentencing decisions. >> we had a confirmation process where the conclusion that she's going to get confirmed was pretty much foregone by everybody. some republicans, a few republicans wanted to take some
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shots and make political points. democrats found it in their interest to act as those people represented the entire republican party and that was the entire confirmation was about when the majority of the questions was normal and anti-climatic. >> there was a lot of questions on pedophiles. we're out of time. thank you to the round table. we'll be right back. i am here because they revolutionized immunotherapy.
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